I realize I'm a little late on this one, but I've got a couple of BVS yellow jackets that do just a little more than Wi-Spy. Other than a few features that are specific to directional location/ranging of AP's.
Besides, if you're looking to troubleshoot in your operating environment, a spectrum analyzer that does as much as Wi-Spy does is more than adaquate, especially for the price. 150 Pounds Sterling is nothing... I paid a small fortune for the yellow jackets and let me tell you, they're good for about 20 minutes before they go to hell because they consume power so rapidly. And when you're trying to diagnose wireless issues in a facility that is roughly a million square feet, 20 minutes isn't nearly enough time.
Wow...that is an interesting application for Wi-Spy. I look forward to seeing screenshots/recordings!
Tuesday, March 13 at 09:26, pchristy said:
I hear what you say about the US one being under-priced,
but if the price doubles in Europe when it does in the States, you can
kiss good-bye to any sales over here!
I have resisted mentioning this before, because I didn't want to come off as callous, but we love our European distributor. They have already adjusted the price to reflect the price increase, whereas our US resellers are dragging their feet. That's the reason there is such a major price discrepancy. We would have preferred that all our resellers and distributors handle the price increase the way our European distributor did (i.e. change the price on the effective date, rather than waiting until they had to re-order from us). Anyway, the point here is that the European pricing will not be increasing.
Personally, I'm using a Spektrum. The problem arises in that some of
our major competitions (like the National championships) take place on
an airfield where the distance between different flightlines maybe a
mile or more - over wet grass too! At that kind of range, it is very
unlikely that two ground based sets will detect each others presence.
However, once in the air, its a whole new ball game...!
Since the event is open to the public, the last thing we need is a radio failure!
On our normal bands (35 and 459 MHz) we stagger our frequency
allocations so as to avoid using adjacent channels on adjacent
flightlines. This has always worked well. However, on 2.4 GHz, we
cannot allocate channels, and have doubts about the ability of the sets
to select a "free" channel under such adverse conditions.
A device like yours, but fitted with an external aerial, would be a godsend to the organisers of such events.
But not at the price your European distributor is charging!
I hear what you say about the US one being under-priced, but if the
price doubles in Europe when it does in the States, you can kiss
good-bye to any sales over here! Even our national body would stall at
shelling out £400 or more for a simple monitor, when we can buy full
blown spectrum analysers (2nd hand, admittedly) for similar money!
They may not be so easy to use on 2.4 GHz, but they cover our other bands as well, and in the right hands, will do the job!
I found the same device on the 'net for $96. Guess which I've ordered! Even with shipping and import duty, its still HALF the price your European agent is charging!
Sorry, I posted on this topic over the weekend, but the forum ate my
post. We're changing the forum, and my post will be showing up shortly.
Well done getting yourself a good deal!
.
Monday, March 12 at 09:26, pchristy said:
Recently a US manufacturer has started shipping model radio control equipment that uses 2.4 GHz. This is rapidly becoming a world-wide standard. (Previously each region had its own set of frequencies for this). At contests, we need some kind of monitoring equipment, to check channel availability - not easy at these frequencies!
We're familiar with Spektrum, the founder of the company is a former
colleague of ours. Is that what you're using? I thought the Spektrum
technology automatically avoided channel conflicts with a frequency
hopping algorithm? Are you using a fixed-frequency 2.4 GHz R/C
controller?
Re: My earlier post about your European distributor..
Actually, I was wrong! He isn't charging the equivalent of $205.
That was *without* our local sales tax (VAT). With the sales tax that
makes it the equivalent of $240.87!
I found the same device on the 'net for $96. Guess which I've
ordered! Even with shipping and import duty, its still HALF the price
your European agent is charging!
BTW, you might be want to know why I'm interested in this. Recently
a US manufacturer has started shipping model radio control equipment
that uses 2.4 GHz. This is rapidly becoming a world-wide standard.
(Previously each region had its own set of frequencies for this). At
contests, we need some kind of monitoring equipment, to check channel
availability - not easy at these frequencies! At $99 (or thereabouts),
your kit is well within the reach of most clubs, and even interested
individuals. At $200, what will happen is that our national body will
probably buy a couple of sets, and lend them out to affiliated clubs on
request. That's two sales against maybe a hundred for an admittedly
very specialised application!
Fair enough, but I'm comparing advertised prices on the 'net. In the US, your device is available now for $99 - in the UK the same device is the equivalent of $205!!
That is fact. My view of that fact is that our US customers are getting
a bargain, not that our UK customers are getting ripped off, and that
our US resellers are selling for too little. Our differing perspectives
are to be expected, since I am a seller, and you are a buyer. Once our
US resellers have to reorder, the price discrepancy will be resolved.
.
Saturday, March 3 at 11:12, pchristy said:
I've just bought some modules for my spectrum analyser that go from 10 MHz to 20 GHz. They cost me £300, say $570. Not new, I'll grant you, but in perfect working order. That is the alternative!
Indeed it is. However, in order for that alternative to be viable, you
also had to acquire a spectrum analyzer in which to put said modules. I
would hope that when that additional expense it taken into account Wi-Spy stacks up pretty favorably in a cost analysis.
Everyone here at MetaGeek is glad that your our customer, and we
sincerely regret that you have any bad feelings about your relationship
with us or our resellers. You and lupus have both raised the same
completely valid point, which is that:
When we include the price of software development into the price of Wi-Spy either:
We had better provide equivalent software capabilities to all our users (Win, Mac, Linux) OR
We are mistreating the users we don't provide equivalent software capabilities (currently Mac and Linux).
As I said, that's totally valid. Unfortunately, I don't have any
response to it right now, except to say "We're sorry" and hope that you
believe we mean it. We do.
Well, I could go on and on about this topic, but I won't here. Look for an upcoming blog on the topic.
Fair enough, but I'm comparing advertised prices on the 'net. In the
US, your device is available now for $99 - in the UK the same device is
the equivalent of $205!!
I've just bought some modules for my spectrum analyser that go from
10 MHz to 20 GHz. They cost me £300, say $570. Not new, I'll grant
you, but in perfect working order. That is the alternative!
Thanks for your feedback, Pete. As a point of clarification, though, the price of the current Wi-Spy is $199 US. Pricing for the external antenna version has not yet been determined. We may have to consider charging separately for the hardware and software, but we have no immediate plans for that.
I have to say that you *really* need to find a new European distributor!
The dollar is currently around $1.90 to the Pound Sterling (£).
So your current $99 offering ought to be £51.25 in the UK. OK,
allow for our taxes, and importer markup - say 30% total - that gives
£68.32.
Your importer is currently charging £106.38!!!!
THIS IS A BLATANT RIP-OFF!
In your terms this would be your current $99 item selling for $205.48 !!!!
Heaven knows what he'll charge for the new version!
Don't expect him to sell many on this side of the pond!
I hear what you are saying about your new software being worth the
proposed increased price. However, like most engineers, I don't run
windoze! One of the attractions of your device is that there is Linux
software available for it, and that is what I would use.
Why do you expect me to pay for some very expensive software (your windoze stuff) that I will never use?
Come on guys, lets have a reality check here! You have a good
product. Don't price yourself out of the market. And don't let your
agents insult the intelligence of potential customers!
Actually, I started my computing life on an Apple IIe, and I still
use a Mac as my personal computer of choice. Ryan has a Mac at home,
too.
That said, 90% of the hits on our Website are from Windows, so that
platform has to be our first development priority. We do intend to
continue development of the Mac version of Chanalyzer, as development
resources allow.
Eakiu is an excellent application, and we certainly appreciate David Cook's efforts.
We feel that the Chanalyzer software more than justifies the price increase. Additionally, Wi-Spy has been under-priced since its introduction. Now we are addressing that.
Does this mean that Mac users get a discount? :-)
Or do you pay a bonus to David Cook for his Eakiu software?
Actually, I would think that that would be a good thing to do... his
software is superb, and it means that Mac users shouldn't feel short
changed...
I am pretty sure you cannot improve device that much to justify 100$ cost increase.
As a consumer, it is natural to object to price increase, and we can
completely identify with that. That said, we feel that the Chanalyzer
software more than justifies the price increase. Additionally, Wi-Spy
has been under-priced since its introduction. Now we are addressing
that.
.
pedja wrote:
Wi-Spy is already ridiculously overpriced by your European resseler. Now you decided to maek more money so you increasd price.
True, Wi-Spy is significantly more expensive in Europe than in the US.
The European prices are set by our European distributor, and they were
higher than the US prices because the distributor felt the prices in
the US did not provide adequate margin. The price increase in Europe
should be less than in the US, bringing the price points closer
together.
.
pedja wrote:
Well, it is now close to prices of real low end spectral analyzers.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but could you please post a link
to the low end spectrum analyzers you've seen in the sub-$500 price
range? We've never found one for under $2500. Please share.
.
pedja wrote:
Now I am really sorry for advertizing this among coleagues.
We certainly appreciate all word-of-mouth advertising. Thank you.
We're sorry that you feel that way. We realize this price increase is
not going to be a popular move with our customers, but it is necessary.
We are confident that Wi-Spy with Chanalyzer is worth the increased price.
I am pretty sure you cannot improve device that much to justify 100$ cost increase.
WiS-yis already ridiculously overpriced by your European resseler. NOw
you decided to maek more money so you increasd price. Well, it is now
close to prices of real low end spectral analyzers.
Now I am really sorry for advertizing this among coleagues.
Submitted by chuckolson2 on Mon, 01/15/2007 - 13:32.
Also, it seems the subject of the external antenna connector has had
almost no response since early October 2006, at which time you were
expecting production to begin. Will the new $199 Wi-Spy have an
external antenna connector option or will it be available as a
completely new product? If there is a new product with an external
antenna connector, will it be shielded so that only the RF that enters
through the connector will be sensed and measured?
Thanks! That is exactly what our thought process was when we created Wi-Spy!
I realize I'm a little late on this one, but I've got a couple of BVS yellow jackets that do just a little more than Wi-Spy. Other than a few features that are specific to directional location/ranging of AP's.
Besides, if you're looking to troubleshoot in your operating environment, a spectrum analyzer that does as much as Wi-Spy does is more than adaquate, especially for the price. 150 Pounds Sterling is nothing... I paid a small fortune for the yellow jackets and let me tell you, they're good for about 20 minutes before they go to hell because they consume power so rapidly. And when you're trying to diagnose wireless issues in a facility that is roughly a million square feet, 20 minutes isn't nearly enough time.
Anyway, the point here is that the European pricing will not be increasing.
Well, that's good news! And I'm sure a lot of people on this side of the pond will welcome it!
Cheers,
--
Pete
Wow...that is an interesting application for Wi-Spy. I look forward to seeing screenshots/recordings!
Tuesday, March 13 at 09:26, pchristy said:
I have resisted mentioning this before, because I didn't want to come off as callous, but we love our European distributor. They have already adjusted the price to reflect the price increase, whereas our US resellers are dragging their feet. That's the reason there is such a major price discrepancy. We would have preferred that all our resellers and distributors handle the price increase the way our European distributor did (i.e. change the price on the effective date, rather than waiting until they had to re-order from us). Anyway, the point here is that the European pricing will not be increasing.
Personally, I'm using a Spektrum. The problem arises in that some of
our major competitions (like the National championships) take place on
an airfield where the distance between different flightlines maybe a
mile or more - over wet grass too! At that kind of range, it is very
unlikely that two ground based sets will detect each others presence.
However, once in the air, its a whole new ball game...!
Since the event is open to the public, the last thing we need is a radio failure!
On our normal bands (35 and 459 MHz) we stagger our frequency
allocations so as to avoid using adjacent channels on adjacent
flightlines. This has always worked well. However, on 2.4 GHz, we
cannot allocate channels, and have doubts about the ability of the sets
to select a "free" channel under such adverse conditions.
A device like yours, but fitted with an external aerial, would be a godsend to the organisers of such events.
But not at the price your European distributor is charging!
I hear what you say about the US one being under-priced, but if the
price doubles in Europe when it does in the States, you can kiss
good-bye to any sales over here! Even our national body would stall at
shelling out £400 or more for a simple monitor, when we can buy full
blown spectrum analysers (2nd hand, admittedly) for similar money!
They may not be so easy to use on 2.4 GHz, but they cover our other bands as well, and in the right hands, will do the job!
--
Pete
Monday, March 12 at 09:26, pchristy said:
Sorry, I posted on this topic over the weekend, but the forum ate my
post. We're changing the forum, and my post will be showing up shortly.
Well done getting yourself a good deal!
.
Monday, March 12 at 09:26, pchristy said:
We're familiar with Spektrum, the founder of the company is a former
colleague of ours. Is that what you're using? I thought the Spektrum
technology automatically avoided channel conflicts with a frequency
hopping algorithm? Are you using a fixed-frequency 2.4 GHz R/C
controller?
Re: My earlier post about your European distributor..
Actually, I was wrong! He isn't charging the equivalent of $205.
That was *without* our local sales tax (VAT). With the sales tax that
makes it the equivalent of $240.87!
I found the same device on the 'net for $96. Guess which I've
ordered! Even with shipping and import duty, its still HALF the price
your European agent is charging!
BTW, you might be want to know why I'm interested in this. Recently
a US manufacturer has started shipping model radio control equipment
that uses 2.4 GHz. This is rapidly becoming a world-wide standard.
(Previously each region had its own set of frequencies for this). At
contests, we need some kind of monitoring equipment, to check channel
availability - not easy at these frequencies! At $99 (or thereabouts),
your kit is well within the reach of most clubs, and even interested
individuals. At $200, what will happen is that our national body will
probably buy a couple of sets, and lend them out to affiliated clubs on
request. That's two sales against maybe a hundred for an admittedly
very specialised application!
Something for you to ponder?
--
Pete
Saturday, March 3 at 11:12, pchristy said:
That is fact. My view of that fact is that our US customers are getting
a bargain, not that our UK customers are getting ripped off, and that
our US resellers are selling for too little. Our differing perspectives
are to be expected, since I am a seller, and you are a buyer. Once our
US resellers have to reorder, the price discrepancy will be resolved.
.
Saturday, March 3 at 11:12, pchristy said:
Indeed it is. However, in order for that alternative to be viable, you
also had to acquire a spectrum analyzer in which to put said modules. I
would hope that when that additional expense it taken into account Wi-Spy stacks up pretty favorably in a cost analysis.
Everyone here at MetaGeek is glad that your our customer, and we
sincerely regret that you have any bad feelings about your relationship
with us or our resellers. You and lupus have both raised the same
completely valid point, which is that:
When we include the price of software development into the price of Wi-Spy either:
We had better provide equivalent software capabilities to all our users (Win, Mac, Linux) OR
We are mistreating the users we don't provide equivalent software capabilities (currently Mac and Linux).
As I said, that's totally valid. Unfortunately, I don't have any
response to it right now, except to say "We're sorry" and hope that you
believe we mean it. We do.
Well, I could go on and on about this topic, but I won't here. Look for an upcoming blog on the topic.
Fair enough, but I'm comparing advertised prices on the 'net. In the
US, your device is available now for $99 - in the UK the same device is
the equivalent of $205!!
I've just bought some modules for my spectrum analyser that go from
10 MHz to 20 GHz. They cost me £300, say $570. Not new, I'll grant
you, but in perfect working order. That is the alternative!
--
Pete
Thanks for your feedback, Pete. As a point of clarification, though, the price of the current Wi-Spy is $199 US. Pricing for the external antenna version has not yet been determined. We may have to consider charging separately for the hardware and software, but we have no immediate plans for that.
I have to say that you *really* need to find a new European distributor!
The dollar is currently around $1.90 to the Pound Sterling (£).
So your current $99 offering ought to be £51.25 in the UK. OK,
allow for our taxes, and importer markup - say 30% total - that gives
£68.32.
Your importer is currently charging £106.38!!!!
THIS IS A BLATANT RIP-OFF!
In your terms this would be your current $99 item selling for $205.48 !!!!
Heaven knows what he'll charge for the new version!
Don't expect him to sell many on this side of the pond!
I hear what you are saying about your new software being worth the
proposed increased price. However, like most engineers, I don't run
windoze! One of the attractions of your device is that there is Linux
software available for it, and that is what I would use.
Why do you expect me to pay for some very expensive software (your windoze stuff) that I will never use?
Come on guys, lets have a reality check here! You have a good
product. Don't price yourself out of the market. And don't let your
agents insult the intelligence of potential customers!
--
Pete
Touché, lupus...
Actually, I started my computing life on an Apple IIe, and I still
use a Mac as my personal computer of choice. Ryan has a Mac at home,
too.
That said, 90% of the hits on our Website are from Windows, so that
platform has to be our first development priority. We do intend to
continue development of the Mac version of Chanalyzer, as development
resources allow.
Eakiu is an excellent application, and we certainly appreciate David Cook's efforts.
Support said:
Does this mean that Mac users get a discount? :-)
Or do you pay a bonus to David Cook for his Eakiu software?
Actually, I would think that that would be a good thing to do... his
software is superb, and it means that Mac users shouldn't feel short
changed...
pedja wrote:
As a consumer, it is natural to object to price increase, and we can
completely identify with that. That said, we feel that the Chanalyzer
software more than justifies the price increase. Additionally, Wi-Spy
has been under-priced since its introduction. Now we are addressing
that.
.
pedja wrote:
True, Wi-Spy is significantly more expensive in Europe than in the US.
The European prices are set by our European distributor, and they were
higher than the US prices because the distributor felt the prices in
the US did not provide adequate margin. The price increase in Europe
should be less than in the US, bringing the price points closer
together.
.
pedja wrote:
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but could you please post a link
to the low end spectrum analyzers you've seen in the sub-$500 price
range? We've never found one for under $2500. Please share.
.
pedja wrote:
We certainly appreciate all word-of-mouth advertising. Thank you.
We're sorry that you feel that way. We realize this price increase is
not going to be a popular move with our customers, but it is necessary.
We are confident that Wi-Spy with Chanalyzer is worth the increased price.
I am pretty sure you cannot improve device that much to justify 100$ cost increase.
WiS-yis already ridiculously overpriced by your European resseler. NOw
you decided to maek more money so you increasd price. Well, it is now
close to prices of real low end spectral analyzers.
Now I am really sorry for advertizing this among coleagues.
Sorry about the delay is responding to this post. I posted an update on the external antenna version here:
http://www.metageek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=560#560
Also, it seems the subject of the external antenna connector has had
almost no response since early October 2006, at which time you were
expecting production to begin. Will the new $199 Wi-Spy have an
external antenna connector option or will it be available as a
completely new product? If there is a new product with an external
antenna connector, will it be shielded so that only the RF that enters
through the connector will be sensed and measured?
Thanks,
Chuck W6PKP